A conversation with Karim Morsy about perfection, innovation and beauty

SHORT PROFILE:

NAME: Karim Morsy
OCCUPATION: CEO and Co-founder of Algoriddim, the creators of djay, the #1 DJ app which has received multiple Apple Design Awards.
BACKGROUND: Karim co-founded Algoriddim while studying computer science and music. He began his career at Apple Inc. developing key features of iMovie during the advent of the mobile revolution in 2006. He is an avid pianist, composer, and DJ with over 20 years of professional experience. As a speaker Karim was featured in Apple’s 2016 and 2020 keynotes introducing the world’s first AI based DJ system. The djay app was also just featured in Apple's 2023 keynote for Vision Pro, showcased as one of the very first apps for this revolutionary device.

Moritz: Karim, how did you actually find this house and office, which are so beautifully designed both inside and out? Upon entering, it feels like stepping into an oasis of tranquility, right next to the English Garden.

Karim: It was quite a process. I firmly believe that the environment profoundly impacts creative work, and we had spent a significant amount of time searching for the right place. Many places were explored before we settled here, yet none seemed to fit, often due to very subtle elements – an unfavorable smell, or a particular sensory impression. I am quite sensitive to these things. This location, close to the English Garden, struck us as perfect – the serene surroundings matched our previous, albeit smaller office. One day, during a leisure stroll through the English Garden, I stumbled upon this house which was under-construction at that time and I imagined it as a possibility. As I discovered, the project was spearheaded by the famous architect Sauerbruch, renowned for designing the Brandhorst Museum in Munich among other things. Everything just fell into place from there.

Your fascination with music led you to study it, and now you've seamlessly integrated it into your professional life. What is it about music that so captivates you?

Music, for me, is a gateway to alternate states of consciousness. It allows me to immerse myself in worlds that are otherwise inaccessible. This transformation can happen at the push of a play button, or when you're creating the music yourself, you're essentially building this world. I perceive music on quite a deep level. I try to feel it in its entirety and I am fascinated by how it can in turn alter the way we perceive the world around us. We remain in the present, but music introduces us to a different auditory realm, a sphere, almost a different quality of consciousness. Moreover, this magical transformation is reproducible, which makes music even more special. It's like having stored beautiful moments – say, from a concert or a wedding – and being able to revisit them, either through technology or by creating music yourself, or even by just imagining a certain piece of music in your mind. This aspect of music has always fascinated me.

What kind of music do you listen to when you want to reach a particular mental state?

That's an interesting question. More often than not, my goal is not to induce a specific feeling but to align my existing emotional state with the music I listen to. It's a resonance of sorts – the music mirrors your emotions, and in turn, you reflect it back. This synergy creates something significant. For instance, if I'm feeling energized, I would listen to music that resonates with this state, thus amplifying it. So, it's not so much about altering my mental state as it is about finding coherence between my feelings and the music.

Where do you find new inspiration in music?

Music, to me, is a catalyst for inspiration rather than a source. It has the power to manifest and breathe life into a latent vision or idea. I don't necessarily get inspired by listening to a particular song. Instead, the combination of an existing mood or thought and the music can transcend to something higher.
I am also captivated by the science behind music – it's not some mystical phenomenon. There are clear rules and precise mathematics that dictate it. This proves the universality of music. It's fascinating to know exactly why a piece of music sounds a certain way, why it evokes specific emotions. It aligns with the logical laws of mathematics and nature, eliminating, or at least reducing, any trace of mysticism.

You started your career at Apple while studying computer science and music. Now you're studying psychology. What influenced you the most during this time?

The possibility that you can shape the world around you and what you build can impact millions of people. Attention to detail, the blend of perfectionism and creativity – this really resonates with me.

"Perfection occurs when you are no longer consciously aware of the presence of a product.”

You founded Algoriddim right out of college, over 15 years ago. What still motivates you to wake up every morning, beyond numerical goals and successes?

I always had a deep fascination for music. If we delve a bit deeper and ask, "What is DJing?", it is essentially an interactive way to engage with music and people. It allows you to entertain others, evoke emotions, and create an atmosphere. DJs can sense the room's mood and play music accordingly, reaching that euphoric moment when the music and the ambiance resonate. DJs use existing music to recombine elements, creating new pieces, contributing to the evolution of music. Entire genres, like hip-hop, have emerged from this process.
Our motivation with djay is to provide these artists with innovative technology and tools to interact with music in ways they couldn't before. In doing so, we believe we're making a small but vital contribution to the evolution of music, a commodity that holds immense value in humanity. It's not just about music evolution; we also want to make music accessible to everyone. Much like cooking, which once involved hunting and gathering but is now facilitated by technology, we aim to make blending and mixing music as straightforward as hitting the play button. We serve as a bridge between passive music consumption and active music creation, possibly inspiring individuals to dive deeper into the world of music.

Why did you decide to develop an app instead of becoming a DJ or musician yourself?
Ultimately, it came down to the same thing that got me into DJing. I didn't become a DJ because I said to myself "I want to be a DJ," but because of my love for music that I wanted to share with others. And that's basically the same impulse that drove me when we started Algoriddim and developed djay. This passion to mix music, to interact with it, I wanted to share this with others. A live performance by a DJ reaches only a limited number of people, but an app? That’s a medium that has the potential to reach millions around the world. Technology becomes a fantastic enabler to scale that love of music, allowing many people to experience it.

Over the years of our friendship, I've come to understand that you have a special eye for beauty, including inner and outer beauty. How do you define beauty?

That's a profound question. Can we truly define beauty? I believe that you can experience a high form of beauty when it’s a combination of an immediate, subjective reaction to an object or piece of music and an understanding of that object or piece of music on a deeper level. Why do we find a certain kind of room or a particular face more beautiful than another? There are various theories about this - it could be habit driven, or due to the way we as humans are born to perceive aesthetics. But deeper beauty, for me, is when I combine this automatic feeling of beauty with an understanding of the structure and logic behind what I'm perceiving. For instance, when I listen to a piece of music and understand its structure, how it's composed, or when I see a sunset and understand the physics of light scattering - these things heighten the degree of beauty for me. This combination of an emotional response and intellectual understanding is how I define beauty.

Fascinating. You say that your appreciation of beauty is enhanced by a deeper understanding of what you are observing or experiencing. So the intellectual understanding of an object, an event, or even music elevates your perception of its beauty?

Exactly. It's like going deeper and deeper into beauty. I might look at a painting and find it visually appealing, but when I understand the technical skills, the composition, the intention of the artist, the context of its creation, my appreciation for the beauty of that painting becomes much more profound. The same goes for music. I can tell you why a piece of music sounds the way it does, why it moves me, and why it fits together so perfectly - almost down to the level of the vibrations of the atoms. There is a fascination in being able to dive infinitely deep into beauty.

You've already successfully studied music and computer science, have a successful and certainly time-consuming company, family, friends, hobbies. Why did you decide to add a demanding psychology degree on top of that?

For me, studying is about curiosity, not a sense of obligation. I see education as a way to feed that curiosity. The idea that the brain can understand itself, that we can explore the mechanisms of consciousness, is like being an astronaut on the frontiers of space exploration. There's a societal construct that implies we should stop studying after getting a degree, but I never agreed with it. I started our company while studying and, for most of the time, I continued to study and learn. It's a lifelong process for me.
A couple of years ago, I reached a point where my existing knowledge wasn't enough to fully explain what I wanted to understand. Studying psychology wasn't about gaining more facts; it was about internalizing a new way of thinking, a new way of looking at things. Changing one's thought processes is incredibly difficult. It's a bit like the “10,000-hour rule” to become an expert: it's not just about knowledge accumulation, but about becoming deeply familiar with a way of thinking.

So, are you considering whether you want to do something professionally with your degree? Or is it more for your personal development?

Mostly, it's about enhancing my thinking skills, which are crucial to my work and life. Just as training improves an athlete's performance, deepening my understanding of the world improves my thinking, and vice versa. Of course, this new mindset feeds into everything I do and has influenced some of the innovations we've made over the years. Innovation often arises not from doing more of the same, but from adopting new approaches and recombining existing things.

“The goal is to develop, progress, and reduce a product until it fulfills its basic function in the simplest form while still providing rich functionality. That’s the art of it.”

Shifting from inner to outer beauty: What role do design and aesthetic experiences play in your personal life and your work at Algoriddim?

Design and aesthetics are vital because we experience a product with multiple senses. It's important for a product to be as perfect as possible on every level and every modality.

How do you define "perfect"?

Perfection isn't a final state, it's an ongoing process. Products continue to evolve in an iterative process of continuous feedback, improvement, and innovation. Context matters. A product like the first color TV that came out in the '50s was probably considered perfect at the time, but not by today's standards. In developing products, you should strive to do the best for the user. It's a delicate balance between aesthetics and functionality, and the ultimate question is, "How usable is something and how enjoyable is the experience?"

When do you feel that something is perfect, or near perfect, ready to be unveiled?

When you are no longer consciously aware of the presence of a product, like when you're smoothly riding a bike without thinking about the grip or the pedals. It just works. A great product, such as a Steinway grand piano or an iPhone, harmonizes with you, almost disappearing in the process of using it to accomplish something. If you start to analyze, then something is already amiss. 

I resonate with that. It brings to mind "reduction", "focus" and “less, but better”.

Yes, the goal is to develop, progress, and reduce a product until it fulfills its basic function in the simplest form while still providing rich functionality. That’s the art of it. You must decide whether to stop at 80% or push for the last 20%, perfecting the balance.

You've eloquently explained that. Your company is renowned for innovation. What inspires you to come up with groundbreaking ideas?

A lot of our innovation happens through collaboration within the team. My personal inspiration often comes from reading, particularly non-fiction, and digging into new concepts. For instance, we invented Neural Mix, a technology capable of separating songs into their individual components to isolate vocals, drums, etc. in real time. We were inspired from a neuroscientific perspective and understanding of how the human brain processes music. We asked, "Why hasn't anyone technically solved this in the way the human brain does?" This perspective opened up new possibilities and ultimately led to the AI-powered real time solution we offer today.

The djay app was part of the presentation at the Apple keynote that just took place to introduce the Vision Pro. Congratulations on this achievement. How do you think Spatial Computing is going to impact music apps?

It’s a totally new way to experience and interact with music. I've been DJing for over twenty years, in all sorts of places and with all sorts of technology, but this frankly just blew my mind.
On desktop and mobile devices, it was about bringing the functionality of DJing to the user in an easy-to-use package, and now it is about more than functionality. It is about giving users a rich, immersive experience. An experience of what it feels to be a DJ - in your room, on stage, or at an inspiring place. 

What is your take on new input forms in Spatial Computing?

We were able to create a reimagined version of our app that is controlled entirely by eyes and hands. Spatial input is a whole new way to interact with technology and it will have a profound impact on how we design and create apps.

Thank you for this wonderful conversation, Karim.

If you want to know which book and piece of music inspired Karim the most, check out our “Inspiration Bits” here.